lenny brewer said that the scale of hsbc's operation was stunning. >> at least one occasion, hsbc instructed a bank in iran on how to format payment messages so that transactions would not be blocked or rejected by the united states. lou: brewer however also defended the decision to not prosecute the bank, he said. if authorities pressed charges hsbc would almost certainly have lost its banks license here in this country which would have cost thousands of jobs, joining us now to assess this, and more, former prosecutor alease wheel, and artie idala . is -- where is the outrage that lenny brewer, already -- certainly implicated in the "fast and furious" scandal is standing there, as spokesman u.s. justice department saying they are not going to prosecute. >> you set it up not fair, you did not say, deferred prosecution. lou: i'm sorry who is going to jail. i want to get this right. >> not yet, but if they don't pay the money, if they don't -- they have 5 years of probation, at this point, so,. lou: you are right. >> brewer and the rest of the crew -- >> lisa i'm crushed. >> here is reality ch